Review Multi Hole Fuel Injectors for Tacoma 34l

Qtonic

I retrieve in the other thread he mentioned he originally went with 350cc or 370cc. Maybe that'due south what he'south referring to by smaller.

Incidentally, according to the site below the iv pigsty Denso 3420 / 23250-50040 is 250cc (not 270cc stated above) and xiii.five Ohms and the 12 hole Denso 4410 / 23250-20030 is 255cc and 13.7 Ohm. So pretty much plug and play with no adapter required. I couldn't find information on Denso 23250-50060 used from 2005-2007.

Denso 3420 / 23250-50040
Denso 4410 / 23250-20030

J1000

Now we're talking! Man, I need one of those gauges.
I was looking at it purely from a equal fuel quantity perspective. Leaning out the mixture and getting closer to stoichiometric is typically a good affair. I will say though, I think the benefits of the differences in atomization are a chip overblown. There'southward a huge effect of the gas dynamics and flow effectually the valves and the ports, and none of that is changing. If nosotros were talking DFI, information technology'd be a totally different story.

Either mode, cool stuff.

Improve atomization is better atomization. Tin can't argue your fashion out of that no matter how you try. Nearly of the benefit of these injectors comes from fractional throttle and idling anyway where the duty wheel is depression and the airflow through the manifold is low, so any improvement to the spray pattern makes a larger difference than at wide open throttle.

If these undersized injectors are in fact leaning out the mixture that ways they are running at a higher duty wheel and unable to keep upward with what the o2 sensors and ecm is trying to become the engine to run at. Non something I'd recommend.

Practise you have any proof or stats or anything to dorsum that upwardly? I'm just asking because I installed an aftermarket air-fuel wideband controller in my truck and monitored the ECU via OBD port so that I could ensure my truck is running well within a safety zone. But curious where your information is coming from. Thanks in advance. In actual reality ameliorate atomized fuel burns more completely and produces more efficient power so less fuel needs to be injected for the same result. That's why they were invented.

Alright, now I'm dislocated. This is the get-go I'm hearing almost (or at least the kickoff time I'm communicable onto) the thought that these 12 hole injectors are smaller. Of course that will improve peak power past leaning out the open loop portion of the ECU map. That should be very hands provable on a dyno. It's washed all the time in the tuner world, albeit commonly using the same OEM injectors (or larger) and manipulating the ECU signal for airflow and/or injector impulses to "pull fuel" throughout strategically chosen portions of the fuel map. No matter how y'all "pull fuel", information technology will also introduce riskier situations that Toyota intentionally avoided by using the injector size and fuel map they did. I recall it also has negative emissions implications for NOx every bit well, simply I'm less versed in that.

See above. If you lot consider yourself a "tuner" then you would know the reasons why people choose one style production over another, a new technology vs an old technology. Even if the benefit is very small. If you lot optimize several parts of an engine, you lot will create a much larger consequence. Adept injectors are the foundation of a finely tuned engine. In that location are many reasons why Toyota did what they did, but I'm an "advanced user" so I tin unlock improve features not attainable to normal folk

If nosotros're talking most manipulating injector sizing then that's a totally different conversation than 12 hole vs iv hole. Yes, leaning out fuel maps under load works. That'southward essentially the entire premise of the "tuner" culture, of which I consider myself a fellow member. I'm totally into that. Not on my LC, just on other vehicles, sure. I had an analog AEM AFR guess in the A-pillar of my terminal "fun" car for years. Probably spent hours watching that gauge two seconds at a fourth dimension, boosting through the gears with various modifications over the years.
At whatever charge per unit, this smaller injector talk is a separate discussion from the 12 hole vs 4 hole.

It's a dual benefit. Two things are happening and we can talk well-nigh both of them at the aforementioned time. What'southward wrong with that? Like I and others take repeated many times merely you lot just aren't agreement is: these injectors provide the biggest do good in smoothness and efficiency at partial throttle or idle. This has nix to do with the air-fuel ratio provided by a smaller injector because in these depression-load situations the ECU is compensating and keeping the ratio at stoich, 14.vii:1. Better atomization at depression-load = better MPG. It'due south only plain fact.

The premise of the 12 pigsty upgrade is that the atomization of the 12 hole injectors leads to a functioning gain that is noticeably superior to the 4 hole. And I call back we've already established the WOT difference is (or is supposed to be) negligible. What'southward up for debate is the partial throttle, closed loop functioning.

Yep, and information technology'south style better :deadhorse:

uzj100

I think in the other thread he mentioned he originally went with 350cc or 370cc. Maybe that'southward what he's referring to by smaller.
Incidentally, according to the site below the iv hole Denso 3420 / 23250-50040 is 250cc (not 270cc stated higher up) and 13.v Ohms and the 12 hole Denso 4410 / 23250-20030 is 255cc and 13.7 Ohm. So pretty much plug and play with no adapter required. I couldn't find information on Denso 23250-50060 used from 2005-2007.

Denso 3420 / 23250-50040
Denso 4410 / 23250-20030

Then society qty 8 4410s and plug in and go? Need to know what to order. Thanks for all the insights.

Qtonic

And so order qty 8 4410s and plug in and go? Need to know what to order. Thanks for all the insights.

I'm pretty sure that's it. I have a question into an ebay seller about sending 8 menstruation matched instead of 6+ii or 6x2. In the name of science I may go a fix of their four-hole to compare like against similar. Yep, technically they should all be sent off and verified past a 2nd source, but at least it wouldn't be pitting xx year former injectors vs newly rebuilt. I'g doing this out of curiosity equally much as anything at this bespeak.

J1000

I'm pretty certain that's information technology. I have a question into an ebay seller well-nigh sending 8 menstruum matched instead of 6+two or 6x2. In the name of science I may get a set of their 4-hole to compare similar against like. Yes, technically they should all be sent off and verified by a second source, but at least it wouldn't exist pitting 20 yr quondam injectors vs newly rebuilt. I'm doing this out of curiosity as much as anything at this indicate.

I bought two sets of 6 injectors and resold the actress iv.

roma042987

Exercise you have any proof or stats or anything to dorsum that upwards? I'thousand just asking because I installed an aftermarket air-fuel wideband controller in my truck and monitored the ECU via OBD port so that I could ensure my truck is running well within a safe zone. Just curious where your data is coming from. Thank you in advance. In actual reality improve atomized fuel burns more than completely and produces more efficient power so less fuel needs to exist injected for the aforementioned result. That's why they were invented.

Proof to back what upwards? I didn't country an stance, only a description of how the fuel injection organization works.

And so based on all the info you lot've stated are yous saying these injectors are amend than the ones toyota and denso adult? In that location'due south a reason the manufactory ones are around 100 bucks a piece. You go what you lot pay for.

What exactly is a "aftermarket air-fuel broad band controller" that you installed? Did you lot install a broad band air fuel ratio sensor? The "controller" is the ecu and so that doesn't even make any sense.

100club

After following this thread
Anyone ever installed bigger injectors?
i decided to pull the trigger on a gear up of 12 hole injectors from Dirty Deeds. All results are positive. Improved throttle response at 20-fourscore % pedal position, noticeable improvement in top end pull on the highway. All this and i got some other 10 miles on the odometer at the 3/4 mark on the gas approximate. I understand that this is not a scientific method but after nine years and 65,000 miles of ownership, I know this truck very well. Curiosity got the better of me so i went ahead and filled up early. 110 miles ( Added 5% to compensate for my 285's like i do every fourth dimension) i used half dozen.viii gallons for a mpg of 16.17. This was 70-30 city to highway. The final fourth dimension checked fuel mileage information technology was 12.8 FYI My LX has 199k miles on information technology and i run a bottle of injector cleaner thru it every year.

Anybody that thinks this is snake oil is entitled to their opinion and theory. The rest of us will enjoy the reality that the truck feels similar to went on a diet and lost 600 lbs. Dirty Deeds offers a full refund if not satisfied so yous take nothing to lose and ever thing to proceeds.

Anyone in the Spokane expanse that wants to accept my LX for a drive is welcome.....

TLC Dan

Are these the ones you used: Fuel injectors - Dirty DEEDS INDUSTRIES

330cc or 250cc, with or without adapters?

TLC Dan

100club,
Yep these are the ones. 250cc w/o adapters......

Relish you hundy'southward weight loss

100club

100club,
Yes these are the ones. 250cc westward/o adapters......
Enjoy you hundy'southward weight loss

Thanks Dan!

uzj100 · Jan 21, 2019

At present for the 12 hole challenge - why an about $250 divergence between dirty deeds and ebay/injector site? Especially without dyno results and actual information.

suprarx7nut

Proof to dorsum what up? I didn't state an opinion, just a clarification of how the fuel injection organization works.
So based on all the info you've stated are you saying these injectors are better than the ones toyota and denso developed? There'due south a reason the factory ones are around 100 bucks a piece. You get what y'all pay for.

What exactly is a "aftermarket air-fuel wide band controller" that you installed? Did yous install a wide band air fuel ratio sensor? The "controller" is the ecu then that doesn't even make any sense.

I'm with you.

I just desire some numbers, lol. That'southward all. I don't mean to incite riots or anything. Not looking to offend anyone or say anyone's wrong. I just want some objective evidence for the sake of learning.

Maybe it's me, but I experience like this is the chat I'thousand having with folks on this topic:

Me: "Interesting idea. Any data showing the improvement?"
Others: "No. Information technology won't show upward on a dyno at WOT and it's as well difficult to show it in any other test. Just try it out for yourself. You'll feel the deviation."
Me: "Hmmm... that'south what I hear about intake tornados, Electrical filters, Oil additives, gas additives, etc... I recollect there's gotta be a way to show the data for this improvement."
Others: "No, it's just facts. Better atomization = amend performance. It's scientific discipline. Buy it and see for yourself."
Me: "Uh...."

Yeah, the 12-hole injectors are seen on newer models/engines. Yes, it makes sense that they'd disintegrate slightly better in the intake manifold than the 4. Does that event in better performance? I don't know, only I need more than some butt-dyno commentary to be convinced. How do we know the difference felt isn't the divergence between partially clogged, unclean x-twenty year onetime injectors vs brand new, clean ones? Maybe the injector holes makes a 0.5% deviation and the cleanliness makes a half dozen% deviation. If that's true then the recommendation shouldn't exist to spend $300-800 on new injectors, simply rather a cleaning service for $100.

RC Engineering or Injector Dynamics never seem to mention # of holes in their production listing of high end injectors. Are they missing this secret ingredient? Have I missed people building performance engines bragging well-nigh the number of holes in their injectors all these years? Perchance, I suppose.

Atomization also changes throughout the intake path. Atomization may improve or degrade as you lot menstruation from the injector site to the combustion chamber. This could change whatsoever upgrades made at the injector itself.

There are a ton of variables here and nobody seems to accept the want to build a data set on this. Therefore, my skepticism but grows...

Raw information from a half twenty-four hours on a dyno with a fresh set of iv pigsty and a fresh ready of 12 hole injectors would prove this all out. Just get on the dyno and run many runs at varying throttle input. Y'all could plot the throttle input or load against the output power and account for small-scale variances (information technology'll exist hard to concord exactly 25% throttle). With a wideband yous could also plot the AFR differences (if any) in closed loop. You could monitor injector duty wheel, fuel trims, etc... the list goes on and on. Instead we have nothing. No data from anybody bated from a few MPG posts from a couple tanks of gas and a video of an AFR guess with undersized injectors.

I just desire data!

gatormark91

Multiple averaged back-to-back dyno runs with the injectors being the but change is the just data I need to see. Until then, any claimed improvements are just that... claimed. Information technology may be a true change, it may be non, but without scientific testing, is just non scientifically tenable to claim improvement.

Murckman

These threads e'er evolve into dyno seekers. Is it fifty-fifty worth the coin and time to get multiple before and after readings on a 4 cycle dyno on a part that costs $300, permit lonely the eBay $ninety ones?

J1000 · Jan 21, 2019

Proof to back what upward? I didn't state an opinion, just a description of how the fuel injection system works.

You lot unsaid that installing these injectors will effect in harm to the engine and/or injectors. What is that based on? Cipher but woo woo equally far equally I can tell.

Then based on all the info you've stated are you saying these injectors are better than the ones toyota and denso developed? At that place'south a reason the manufacturing plant ones are effectually 100 bucks a piece. Y'all get what you pay for.

The 12-hole injectors I installed ARE manufactured past DENSO for TOYOTA.

What exactly is a "aftermarket air-fuel wide band controller" that you installed? Did you lot install a wide band air fuel ratio sensor? The "controller" is the ecu so that doesn't even make whatever sense.

The sensor by itself is a useless chunk of rare earth metals, so installing that by itself..."doesn't fifty-fifty make any sense." Did yous see the video I posted? No. You probably didn't even read 10% of this thread earlier you started posting ignorant thoughts.

J1000

At present for the 12 pigsty challenge - why an almost $250 difference betwixt muddied deeds and ebay/injector site? Especially without dyno results and bodily data.

Research is done for the customer and delivered in a plug-n-play solution vs. having to figure it out on your ain or with the aid of some nice fellows on this forum. People pay for convenience.

J1000

Raw data from a one-half day on a dyno with a fresh ready of 4 pigsty and a fresh fix of 12 hole injectors would prove this all out. Only get on the dyno and run many runs at varying throttle input. You could plot the throttle input or load confronting the output power and business relationship for pocket-sized variances (it'll be difficult to agree exactly 25% throttle). With a wideband y'all could besides plot the AFR differences (if any) in closed loop. You could monitor injector duty cycle, fuel trims, etc... the list goes on and on. Instead we take nothing. No data from anybody aside from a few MPG posts from a couple tanks of gas and a video of an AFR guess with undersized injectors.
I only want data!

I concord wholeheartedly! If you lot are then kind, please PM me. I volition submit my paypal accost where y'all can donate. I will dyno my truck if the funds are raised to help me and I will swap injectors on the dyno. Dyno time is about $250 an hr.

roma042987

You implied that installing these injectors will effect in harm to the engine and/or injectors. What is that based on? Goose egg merely woo woo as far as I tin tell.
The first post has a link that implies the injectors are oversized. I'm not sure what woo woo is only yeah undersized or oversized injectors or more precisely rich or lean fuel mixture Will cause agin affects. It's not a question of if but more of how before long.

The 12-hole injectors I installed ARE manufactured by DENSO for TOYOTA.

The first post too states these are from "Dirty deeds" or whatever nowhere did I see that these are denso injectors. If they are, practise the erstwhile office numbers supersede to these? Because that's generally what happens when a new and improved COMPATIBLE function is developed.

The sensor by itself is a useless chunk of rare globe metals, so installing that by itself..."doesn't fifty-fifty make whatever sense." Did yous see the video I posted? No. You probably didn't even read x% of this thread earlier you started posting ignorant thoughts.

I know what a wide band sensor is I worked at "tuner" shop with a dyno before I spent x years as a dealer tech. Y'all didn't respond my question what is this "wide ring controller" you speak of.

J1000

I know what a broad band sensor is I worked at "tuner" store with a dyno earlier I spent 10 years as a dealer tech. Y'all didn't answer my question what is this "wide band controller" you speak of.

Obviously not. A "wideband controller" is the common name given to the complete package of a estimate, sensor, and...the controller that controls the sensor in an aftermarket install. Y'all could have googled it yourself in 2 seconds and you probably know what I'yard talking virtually anyway, you lot're just arguing in bad faith and being purposefully ignorant to stall actual discussion (where it will exist exposed you are wrong).

In other words, this is what I installed in my truck:
Wideband UEGO Air/Fuel Controllers | AEM We Pioneered the Wideband AFR Gauge

Review Multi Hole Fuel Injectors for Tacoma 34l

My experience with 12 hole injectors. Awesome! (2 Viewers)

Qtonic

J1000

uzj100

Qtonic

uzj100

J1000

Qtonic

roma042987

100club

TLC Dan

100club

uzj100

suprarx7nut

YotaMD | ADGU

J1000

J1000

J1000

roma042987

J1000

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